[Discuss] Real internet provider in Victoria?

pw p.willis at telus.net
Sat Nov 4 16:19:51 PDT 2017


On 2017-11-04 02:34 PM, Burkhard Ott-Langer wrote:
> On Sat, 4 Nov 2017 14:14:52 -0700
> pw <p.willis-EynCeXvFgoheoWH0uzbU5w at public.gmane.org> wrote:
> 
>> There should just be IP6 address provider companies.
> 
> Well, that would be fatal. How do you transport the electrical signal?


Canada has had government owned communications infrastructure before.
Publicly owned and managed infrastructure with competitive service
contracts is a known working model. Even for last mile.

Global economics are currently suffering because of the anti-taxation
myth promoted by big business. This has caused governments to get
on-board with a  race to the bottom on taxation.

Can anyone honestly say our society is actually functioning better
now with less taxation? Since the 1970s, while taxes have decreased,
the only portion of our society in Canada that have benefited in any
substantial way are the economic top 5%. This is why average people
can no longer afford to buy a home as compared to 60 years ago, while
public services have declined to the point of failure (ie: B.C. Child
Services, BC Primary/Secondary Education, Canadian Medical System, etc.
etc. all signs of lack of adequate public funding). Not sure why people
keep falling for the old lower taxes lie over and over.

> Right, who pays for the wire?

Subscribers and taxes. Just like water and sewer piping.


> You need some type of authority who builds and maintains the
> infrastructure and I wouldn't have any issue to pay a price for that.
> What I don't want is to pay 3 times:
> 
> 1. for the infrastructure
> 2. for their forced subscriptions (bandwidth, throtteling etc.)
> 3. pay more if I want to use certain services
> 
>> The network is mal-designed in that it requires intermediaries
>> to hold a block of addresses from the pool rather than just
>> having a flat address space where any specific address can exist
>> at any physical location.
> 
> I don't get that, can you explain it a little more please?
> Worldwide anycast?

My point is that blocks of addresses are treated as a commodity.
Blocks are also localized (balkanized) although this is a product
of the routing system (the design).


>> The IP system is more political than functional.
> 
> Nope, not at all. RIPE is just stricter than ARIN is, ARIN gets a
> little bribe and all is fine.
> The official policy for all NICs is to assign the blocks, once the
> owner is not in need anymore he _has_ to give the block back.
> That needs to be enforced.
> 
> TLDs became political (ICANN) in case you meant that.


This is the problem with the network design.
Why should I need to plug into someone else's router/switch
to have an IP address?

In addition, IP6 makes IP addresses about as valuable as raisins
if you look at is from the supply vs. demand perspective. IP6 addresses
should be gratis upon request and should travel with the consumer
rather than the service provider. The only reason this can't be done
(maybe it can..??) is because of the protocol design of the network.


>> What the world needs is either ubiquitous IP6 satellite WIFI,
>> or publicly owned ubiquitous fibre and 'last mile' infrastructure.
> 
> It would be already enough if I would be allowed to get my own wires in
> place :).


There was some talk of SpaceX doing global Satellite WIFI, but it would
be better if Canada ran that kind of system as a part of public
infrastructure. Same with fibre and cable. Less chance of coercion or
price collusion. The only question is how to keep governments from
being evil with all that power. We know that corporations are. At least
with governments each voter has a proxy.


>> Either that or cap the maximum size of communications companies
>> and break up Telus/Shaw/Rogers/etc .
> 
> Usually the more, the better.

In Canada we don't have  'more' or 'better'.


>   
>> Small markets like Canada will never get competition with so few
>> infrastructure providers because consumers are captive to their
>> region.
> 
> I disagree. You just see the consumer market, that is peanuts anyway.

Why is the consumer market peanuts?
Because the network is controlled and owned as a commodity rather than
a resource in the public commons.

> 
> I think it's an endless topic we could discuss for years, now if you
> want to change anything start with your subscription first (I see you
> have telus connection), once switched and satisfied, go to your
> neighbor, friends etc.

I disconnected from television in 1996 because I felt that broadcast
media represented pretty much everything that was wrong with the world. 
I don't think that FOX news have proven me incorrect on that one
yet.

Telus was the local telephone company at the time and only provided
ADSL for consumers. I voted with my feet, The target keeps
moving. I still don't want any package that includes T.V..


> Is that not our responsibility as tech people?
> Just whining doesn't help anyone.

My only responsibility at this time is to remove tons of anthro-carbon 
from my kid's atmosphere. I do that without complaining. That's my
technological focus. The economic issues are generally the same in
that domain (ie: global race to the bottom on taxation, corporate-ized 
government, entrenched lobbies and boards designed for large scale
international trade rather than sustainable societies and environment ).





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